tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post6940698770087930018..comments2024-01-08T08:43:33.551-05:00Comments on Francase Place: God, jail, dinosaurs, and the lawAPOSEC72http://www.blogger.com/profile/09437621566419150183noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-80851037531876906032008-10-15T17:36:00.000-04:002008-10-15T17:36:00.000-04:00True. But Regis, by way of Judge's letter, could h...True. But Regis, by way of Judge's letter, could have made stand by condemning the action stronger and calling for harsh punishment because of the violation of the trust that institution once gave him.<BR/><BR/>In other words, save the "pray for Kuntz" tone for another day down the road. For right now, tell pissed off alumni how they will advocate for Kuntz's removal from the Jesuit order and fight to ensure he never sees the four walls of a classroom again.<BR/><BR/>That would be making a stand. And it's one they could do for people like us even if Kuntz no longer works at Regis. He's still a Jesuit. My words in forums like this are meaningless. Those words in a letter from the current Regis president to thousands of alums would have been powerful.<BR/><BR/>But wait, you mean those Brady Quinn years where the won the Commander-in-Chief trophy every year by beating Army, Navy and Air Force weren't meaningful? Sure they didn't win a bowl game but they routinely beat Stanford! In my opinion, Notre Dame is getting their just rewards for wrongfully firing both Ty Willingham and George O'Leary. And Charlie Weis is showing that it sure is easier to coach an offense when you illegally have access to the other team's defensive playcalling!!!Jeff Briscoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15252053713014756507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-90658782549110416042008-10-15T15:50:00.000-04:002008-10-15T15:50:00.000-04:00Make a stand Regis. You want your grads to be exam...<I>Make a stand Regis. You want your grads to be examples in the world. Why don't you be an example yourself??!!</I><BR/><BR/>Umm, Jeff, Kuntz doesn't work at Regis anymore, and hasn't since 1993. What stand is Regis supposed to make? I agree that the letter was a little weak, but I don't know what precisely they can do at this point since he is no longer associated with them, and hasn't been since the days when Notre Dame was a relevant football program.Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-52300761348240583982008-10-15T15:34:00.000-04:002008-10-15T15:34:00.000-04:00You're right, Paul. I can't deny your point in tha...You're right, Paul. I can't deny your point in that last regard.<BR/><BR/>And I appreciate your description in the prior post. I'm not "church-bashing" or "Regis-bashing" here just for the sake of doing it. I really have a real problem with the way this issue is handled. Judge's letter was case in point. Mike well described many of my issues but I suppose we disagree on the "where do we go from here" part.<BR/><BR/>I just can't focus on forgive/forget until I think the issue if honestly being addressed.<BR/><BR/>I think being a Jesuit must be a tremendous privilege. Afterall, isn't it a 13 year process to become one. Almost anyone else would lose their career for such an action. They would have to start their life over and spend the rest of their days making amends.<BR/><BR/>Then, and only then, can forgiveness enter into the picture, in my opinion. Will Kuntz do that? Will he be defrocked? Or will he be reassigned and rehabilitated.<BR/><BR/>From what I know of similar situations, it will be the latter.<BR/><BR/>If I'm wrong, I will gladly take my thoughts back here. Make a stand Regis. You want your grads to be examples in the world. Why don't you be an example yourself??!!Jeff Briscoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15252053713014756507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-61961280590559599932008-10-15T15:13:00.000-04:002008-10-15T15:13:00.000-04:00You pray for Kuntz, I'll pray for the victimsSorry...<I>You pray for Kuntz, I'll pray for the victims</I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, I missed this one. We can pray for both, you know. God's good at the multi-tasking.Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-14059882974457232942008-10-15T15:11:00.000-04:002008-10-15T15:11:00.000-04:00Look, I think it's reasonable to be upset with Reg...Look, I think it's reasonable to be upset with Regis and even Church administrators when it comes to shuffling people around. The way that this problem has been handled is disgraceful. And I probably would feel much like Dexter (a reference only watchers of the program will get, and only those who have seen the latest episode) if my child was molested. But Francase is right: we also must forgive. But that's easier said than done sometimes.Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-11094827753896760222008-10-15T15:10:00.000-04:002008-10-15T15:10:00.000-04:00Damn, you're cranky today, but actually, yes, it s...Damn, you're cranky today, but actually, yes, it seems a couple of people have popped in from www.regis-nyc.org today, so apparently someone's reading it. <BR/><BR/>not sure who, though. No comments from there. Unless you're secretly sitting in Mr. Philips' computer lab.APOSEC72https://www.blogger.com/profile/09437621566419150183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-51597841291851353932008-10-15T14:58:00.000-04:002008-10-15T14:58:00.000-04:00Censorship! ;-)That's fine. I'm sure they're daily...Censorship! ;-)<BR/><BR/>That's fine. I'm sure they're daily readers of Francase Place (even the dead ones!) and I wouldn't want them to be offended. And since it apparently doesn't offend them to have a guy like Kuntz in their ranks (see Judge's own letter), I wouldn't want to be the one to cross the line!<BR/><BR/>We'll just have to agree to disagree. You pray for Kuntz, I'll pray for the victims, and hopefully someone really powerful is praying for America cause we're all screwed these days!Jeff Briscoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15252053713014756507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-26676731260262556022008-10-15T14:46:00.000-04:002008-10-15T14:46:00.000-04:00Also, I said joked about for a reason, as opposed ...Also, I said joked about for a reason, as opposed to guessing if they were gay. A couple of the names were made fun of for other reasons, such as placing one's desk on the roof of a building, but not all of the FIRST names I mentioned were thought of as gay nor am I distinguishing the ones that were. They were just the most frequent targets of joking for a variety of reasons.APOSEC72https://www.blogger.com/profile/09437621566419150183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-26359612066985816232008-10-15T14:44:00.000-04:002008-10-15T14:44:00.000-04:00I only typed first names for a reason. I did not w...I only typed first names for a reason. I did not want any descriptive last names posted on here, so I am deleting the previous comment.APOSEC72https://www.blogger.com/profile/09437621566419150183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-11507015185946180572008-10-15T14:39:00.000-04:002008-10-15T14:39:00.000-04:00Umm, guys, maybe dropping names of teachers we tho...Umm, guys, maybe dropping names of teachers we thought were gay on a public forum isn't the most appropriate thing to do.Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-49117765962247490282008-10-15T13:49:00.000-04:002008-10-15T13:49:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Jeff Briscoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15252053713014756507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-27778340688514343432008-10-15T13:25:00.000-04:002008-10-15T13:25:00.000-04:00Two very quick points, because I'm running into a ...Two very quick points, because I'm running into a meeting:<BR/><BR/>1) Think of all the teachers that we did joke about - in language departments, history departments, and math department. Remember what they had in common? They were all LAY TEACHERS, not clergy. At least the top 5 I remember making fun of. None were even Jesuit apprentices. <BR/><BR/>Mac, Nedgar, Vinny, and Bob from Fire Island, and Frank (pick one) were all layfolk. <BR/><BR/>2) He's not refusing to do time, and as for his repentance, I'm not an authority to say if he is seeking it. I hope he is, but I think I made pretty clear that he has to (and should) suffer for those actions and will according to the law of man and the law of God. Beyond that, though, the only one who can begin the process to seek forgiveness is him. <BR/><BR/>More to follow later unless someone else feels like jumping in.APOSEC72https://www.blogger.com/profile/09437621566419150183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21758924.post-5069526644883589092008-10-15T12:53:00.000-04:002008-10-15T12:53:00.000-04:00I never thought of, or had to worry about, any of ...<I>I never thought of, or had to worry about, any of the scandalous behavior we hear about often nowadays - never crossed my mind, and there was no reason for it to cross my mind.</I><BR/><BR/>Hmmm? Gotta disagree. No, I didn't have proof Kuntz was masturbating to pics of little boys, but c'mon. Other than the dinosaurs, there wasn't a single Jesuit who didn't come across to me as homosexual. Many were blatantly effeminate. I'll spare you the naming of names. But we joked about it all the time. To say it didn't cross your mind seems to be a re-writing of history.<BR/><BR/><I>we must also realize that forgiveness should come into play</I><BR/><BR/>This is where think you're being way too soft a la Judge. I was surrounded by this crap for too long. When I was in Catholic middle school in the 1980s we dealt with a member of the clergy at that school being busted as a pedo. He naturally got kid gloves treatment, despite local law enforcement being involved. I also was friends with someone who confided in me of his abuse by another member of the clergy. What an awful thing for a young child to deal with. Then we found out several years ago that there was another pedo at Regis during our years there. Now we find out that our former headmaster Kuntz has become a pedo since leaving Regis.<BR/><BR/>Are you kidding me? All that from 6 years in Catholic education? Thank goodness I was spared more direct contact with these freaks! But, no, I'm not at a forgive and pray for them mode. Because the tone of Judge's letter (which is consistent with the Church's overall "it's a small problem" approach) is forgive and forget.<BR/><BR/>You elegantly list all the things the letter lacked yourself. Why not thus hold them accountable? How can one have any faith at all in Regis since they don't? It would be consistent with your broader approach to crime and punishment, that I know of anyway.<BR/><BR/>Do you forgive the criminal who refuses to do his time? Do you pray for a Bill Ayers, who while not planting bombs anymore never properly paid the price for his wrongs? Why do it for Kuntz then?<BR/><BR/>In Kuntz's case, when I find out that he has been stripped of his priesthood and that he's no longer a member of the Jesuits or an authority in the Catholic Church at any level, then I will be ready to forgive and pray for him.<BR/><BR/>But that will not happen.<BR/><BR/>Kuntz will "rehabilitated" and "reassigned" and will not truly pay for his crimes.<BR/><BR/>Do you really think it was a coincidence this man was suddenly sent from being the principle of the most elite Jesuit HS in the USA to the darks of Africa in 1994 to tend to local missions, something which he told us he was bittersweet about doing? Think about it. Perhaps they knew something. And perhaps they choose NOT to do something about it.<BR/><BR/>And perhaps as Judge's letter indicates they are STILL choosing not to do anything about it.<BR/><BR/>No, I will save my prayers 100% for the victims of these crimes, until the perps are treated like the no good pedos they truly are. When that happens, maybe I'll throw them a bone too.Jeff Briscoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15252053713014756507noreply@blogger.com